During your 50-minutes class time (1:00-1:50 p.m.) on Monday, September 20, please publish a comment of at least two well-developed paragraphs about this topic:
Compare and contrast the death of Gatsby at the end of Chapter 8 of The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald with the implied death of Hopkins at the end of Part I of Ernest Hemingway’s “Big Two-Hearted River:” (link: http://xroads.virginia.edu/~DRBR/hem_river.html)
When you compose your comment, please keep in mind the maximalist and minimalist approaches to Modernism that were discussed in class this past week.
After you publish your two-paragraph comment, please reply in one well-developed paragraph to at least one of the other students' comments. Do not merely write that the comment is awesome! Please explain why you think the comment is well-done.
As we have discussed, you should compose your comment and reply paragraphs in a separate Word document or in an email to yourself so that you would not have to rewrite them in case you have a technical glitch when you try to publish them. If you have trouble publishing them at first, just copy and paste them into the comment and reply boxes a second (and even a third) time until they are successfully published.
This glitch usually happens when a student is not logged into a Google account (gmail) when he or she tries to submit the comment or reply. To avoid that possibility, be sure to log in first. However, this glitch also sometimes happens even when a student is logged in, so, to avoid being frustrated in either case, you should compose your comment and reply in a Word document or an email to yourself. If you cannot submit your comment and reply after a few attempts, please email them to me to publish on your behalf: linda.kornasky@angelo.edu.
Reminders: On Wednesday, September 22, we will discuss the research paper and start to delve into William Faulkner's literary renown. We will meet in Academic 101.
Thank you,
Dr. Kornasky
In both F. Scott Fitzgerald’s “the Great Gadsby” and in Ernest Hemingway’s “Big Two Hearted River,” those who have been blessed by the hands of wealth eventually “die” squeezed within its lucrative grasp. Both Gatsby and Hopkins, in their own ways, are consumed by their riches and fail to enjoy the substance that life really offers. Gatsby and Hopkins each surface from humble beginnings and find themselves wildly prosperous, Gatsby through his own success as a bootlegging businessman and Hopkins though his luck in the oil industry.
ReplyDeleteThe two men each lost their relationships with the contentment that accompanies a life of meaning and simplicity in exchange for opulence and excess. Hopkins, who is described as an excellent camp coffee maker by Nick, and Gatsby, who was once “poor” and a “soldier,” both left behind their past lives for lives of luxury after they came in contact with riches (59, 100). Although it is never explicitly stated that Hopkins physically died, it can be assumed he died figuratively in the mind of Nick. Rather than continue his camping trips with Nick and enjoy the modesty that accompanies a humble life, Hopkins abandons his friend, leaving him only to remember the Hopkins that once was. The same can be said for Gatsby, who, in spite of his success, could not even be bothered to enter the rooms of his extravagant home or swim in his expansive pool (113, 118). In Gatsby’s case, it is ironic that as soon as he chose to enjoy his pool and “look up at an unfamiliar sky,” he is killed by George Wilson. The sky in which Gadsby gazed upon in his final moments may represent the same feeling that possibly accompanied Hopkins as he bickered with Nick over how to properly make camp coffee.
Hey Wyatt! I'm quite fond of your impression on Hopkin's metaphorical death. It hadn't occurred to me, though it really should have given the maximalist/minimalist contrast of the two piece's writing styles, that Hopkins' death was a symbolic one. I see a lot of value in the comparison drawn between Gatsby and Hopkins' impressions of their wealth. The biggest connection between the two, I feel, is the relationship the men share with their wealth, and at the root of the two stories, I believe that's one of the thematic focuses with these characters. Very nice response that got me thinking!
DeleteIn the tale of these two Nicks (The Great Gatsby and Big Two-Hearted River) a mysterious figure of the past who left an apparently strong impact on our protagonists accurately describes the role of Gatsby and Hopkins. Both men were apparent multi-millionaires, southern tycoons, and supposedly were involved with less than legal affairs. The two men were southerners, one from Louisiana, the other from Texas, and had peculiar manners of speech that befitted their enigmatic personas. Both men died because of their involvement in underground affairs – though it Gatsby’s case, his most recent affair was evading a hit and run charge – and both more than likely perished without a proper procession celebrating their life.
ReplyDeleteThe similarities between the two men end there, however, as the circumstances of their deaths remain disparate and unrelated. Both men were secretive sure, but Gatsby’s cause of death is clearly outlined as a gunshot wound explicitly described by the protagonist. Hopkins’ death is more mysterious, unconfirmed in fact, but more than likely given the narration. Hopkins left behind two prized possessions for his close friends whilst Gatsby implicitly had no will, merely a penchant for showing off his possessions. Hopkins, in his wake, appears to have left a more admirable impression on the Nick of “Big Two-Hearted River” compared to the Nick of “The Great Gatsby”, whom detested Gatsby in a begrudging, friendly sort of way. Gatsby was a clear liar, picking and choosing his truths and fibs to forward his standing in the eyes of an audience, be it Daisy or Nick, yet Hopkins seemed to be truthful but silent. Fundamentally, Gatsby and Hopkins appear to be two different types of people who made impressions on men named Nick and had great material wealth, but their differences are more numerous than their similarities.
Matthew, I very much enjoyed your take on the death of Gatsby and Hopkins. I especially found your comments on Gadsby's will, or lack thereof. I feel that Hopkins similarly failed to share his wealth upon his "passing," as his empty promise to take Nick on a yacht adventure never actually panned out. In that way, as you put, both men are liars to a certain degree.
DeleteI think it's really interesting that you saw Hopkins death as something illicit and secretive. I had not thought about it that way, but rather assumed he had died in the war since they mentioned him receiving a telegram and then leaving. Your interpretation makes the comparison between Gatsby and Hopkins more apparent. The similarities in the two extravagant and mysterious men who left a lasting impact on the protagonists really emphasizes the spirit of modernism. Both of these men were characterized to be somewhat mysterious and isolated, and both died without a friend despite their extravagance. The simplistic and elusive description of Hopkins leaves us curious just as much as the purposefully obscured character of Gatsby.
Delete(Katherine Spitzer)
Hi Matthew! I really like how you connected the deaths by how strongly they impacted both Nicks from the stories. It is clear that both men were changed by the death of their old friends who were both very mysterious and awfully rich. I also enjoy how you contrasted the two. I had not really thought about who Gatsby might have left all of his possessions to, seeming how he didn’t have a lot of people he was close with. I agree that while they have some similarities, the number of differences are far greater.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteIn F. Scott Fitzgerald’s The Great Gatsby, Jay Gatsby’s death exposes the façade of the American dream. A man who grew up as lower-class and created a lavish life for himself in hopes of a better future, yet who was never accepted among the elite class and was never able to enjoy his wealth. His life became a performance, and he was never able to form meaningful connections. This incredibly wealthy man who hosted parties that people would flock to, was only able to get a few people to attend his funeral. Nick tries to throw a large funeral, but when it mattered most suddenly everyone who was supposed to care for Gatsby, many of which had played some role in his demise, disappeared. The so called American dream wherein anyone can better themselves so as they are willing to work hard, is exposed to be cheap and shallow because so many people are cheap and shallow.
ReplyDeleteSimilarly, the death of Hopkins in Ernest Hemingway’s “Big Two Hearted River” shows the truth of the American dream. Both Gatsby and Hopkins were wealthy men, and both died seemingly alone. However, Hopkins was forced to give up his dream, whereas Gatsby ruined his through his own actions. Hopkins was drafted for the war and never came back. He had no choice but to give up everything he had been working for and dying for his country. He never got to see his friends again. Gatsby, on the other hand, came back from war and was able to use it to his advantage and made a better life for himself. It was simply the fact that he and those around him had become so deluded and isolated in their lives that killed him.
Hemingway explores a minimalistic approach to modernism in that Nick is cataloguing a rather mundane activity, yet through this simple story the reader is able to realize the devastation and psychological damage the war had caused. Hemingway shows the pain and isolation of the time through Nick being alone, without his usual fishing crew, and wondrous at the freedom he now has outside of the army, as well as through the casual mention of the horror of the war. Fitzgerald, on the other hand, approaches modernism from a maximalist perspective, as do his characters. They are not content to return to a simple lifestyle the way Nick Adams is, but rather attempt to deal with their pain through extravagance and drinking. Yet, in the end they are just as isolated as Nick Adams is alone in the woods, and Gatsby still dies alone and all but friendless. Hemingway's characters are forced into isolation through the circumstances and horror of the war, whereas Fitzgerald’s are unable to connect with one another due to their own shallowness and suppression of their own wants.
(Katherine Spitzer)
Nick in The Great Gatsby recalls Gatsby's death in a very similar way that Nick in the “Big Two-Hearted River” does to Hopkin's death. They both describe their deaths as one that has scarred them for the rest of their lives. Nick notes that Gatsby's death and all the events that occurred that summer has made the East Coast seem like a bad dream he once had. Similarly, Nick talks about Hopkin’s death as if he was talking about a war flashback that was trying to creep back into his head. The deaths of both Hopkins and Gatsby play a big role in both narrators' lives. They both represent a part of their pasts that have changed them forever. They have shaped them into the people they are today and have made an impact on both characters.
ReplyDeleteContrastingly, their deaths have different levels of meaning to Nick from The Great Gatsby and Nick from the ‘Big Two-Hearted River’. Gatsby’s death is detailed in great depth by Nick that explains just how greatly Gatsby’s death impacted him. Meanwhile, the other nick merely mentions Hopkin’s death in his story that gives a mere glimpse of what his death meant to Nick. He simply recalls Hopkins in a story and mentions that Hopkins was rich and gave Nick a parting gift and that he never saw Hopkins again. He only infers that Hopkins dies, while Nick Carraway describes Gatsby's death and what it meant to him. Nick talks about Gatsby as a great man who was brought down by the people around him, While the other Nick talks about Hopkins as some rich friend he once knew that had seemed to just disappear one day. Ultimately, both deaths mean different things to both Nicks, and this is shown through the way they describe the death of their old friends.
Hey Veronica. I quite like how you have detailed the similarities in the way the deaths of Gatsby and Hopkins scarred their respective Nicks. I also really enjoy how you made mention of the contrast between great detail of Gatsby's death and the simplicity of Hopkins' death. Very interesting, I can tell you thought about this a lot.
DeleteHi Veronica,
DeleteI loved your response and your interpretation of the two deaths. We only receive one individual perspective of both men, through each Nick, and both show fondness and impact through the loss of their friend. I do agree that Hopkins death holds less weight over the story compared to Gatsby's, where the entire story centers around. Both feel at a loss and the tone changes when their deaths are shared with us.
I really like your comment, Veronica, and your comparison of the two narrations. You commented on how the deaths of Gatsby and Hopkins are described by the two Nicks and what kind of role the deaths played in both narrators’ lives. I think that is a very interesting approach because it shows the important similarities and differences. I also enjoyed reading about the differences in detail that you described. Gatsby’s death with many details and Hopkins’ death with fewer details.
DeleteThe death of Gatsby in The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald and the implied death of Hopkins in Part 1 of Ernest Hemingway’s “Big Two-Hearted River” have striking similarities and some differences. Although Hopkins does not make an actual appearance in the story, he is looked back on fondly by Nick in the same sense that, oddly enough, Nick Carraway does to Gatsby in the beginning of The Great Gatsby. Hopkins is regarded as someone who was very wealthy and successful, much like Gatsby was. It is implied that Hopkins lost his life in the war, following him being drafted and never returning home. The two stories take place during the same period, allowing us to assume the war both authors mention was World War 1. Gatsby had also taken part in the war, though by choice rather than draft. Making a side note of the modernism in the two works, both recounts of the characters come from one individual's perspective, limiting the reader. Both men become eventual victims of the loss of the traditional “American Dream.” Gatsby was murdered in his own home due to the upper class, who had received their money and status through generational wealth rather than arduous work, that was hiding behind each other after fleeing a crime scene and placing the blame on him. Although both men were themselves wealthy and successful, they still lost their lives to people of higher financial and social classes. Hopkins to a war that required his life in place of his country and Gatsby whose life was taken in place of Daisy’s. Both authors highlight how there is always someone with more wealth and success that can still decide your fate, even if you yourself possess what is a large amount of status and money.
ReplyDeleteHI Brittney, I really like your ending point starting how there is always someone else who can decide your fate regardless of your status. I also made a similar point to that in my own response. I hadn’t really thought about how they were both trying to live the typical “American Dream” and it ended up being both their demises. It really goes to show money and power can’t always solve everything and instead, become a greater weakness than a strength because of the target placed on their backs.
DeleteThough both the focal characters of The Great Gatsby and Big Two-Hearted River share the name Nick, the approaches to modernism they represent could not be more different. In chapter 8 of The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald, Jay Gatsby meets his end at the hands of George Wilson. This reveal comes towards the end of the chapter after a great deal of buildup to the crime. Nick Carraway, the story’s narrator, tells the reader all the details he has heard from others and that he can recall personally. The language he uses is bold and flowery, like has been throughout the entirety of the book. Fitzgerald is a maximalist in the way he narrates, speaking poetically in every instance, even during Gatsby’s untimely death.
ReplyDeleteThe implied death of Hopkins in Big Two-Hearted River by Ernest Hemingway is quite the opposite. Rather than the maximalist approach to Modernism of F. Scott Fitzgerald, Hemingway takes a minimalist approach. The narrator does not give Hopkins a grand, wordy farewell. We are simply told that Hopkins received a telegram calling him to war, and after that Nick never saw his friend again.
Hi EmaLee! I really liked how you described both approaches each author used and the different language each author used in order to convey their point. I liked how you pointed out that even during Gatsby's death Nick spoke candidly about Gatsby and the impact Gatsby had on Nick.
DeleteIn “The Great Gatsby” and “The Big Two Hearted River” the deaths of Gatsby and Hopkins have the same effect on both Nicks. In The Great Gatsby after Gatsby’s death Nick feels alienated to the point where he decides to leave New York and goes back home.The reason is Gatsby and his life had a profound effect on Nick and now that Gatsby is gone he is traumatized by the events and has to leave in order to feel like himself again. The alienation caused by Gatsby forces Nick to reflect on his life and rethink his decisions. In “The Big Two Hearted River” Nick feels the same way. As he is camping along a river he thinks back to his friend who was swept up in money and materialistic things. Hopkins was very rich but once he became rich he forgot about his friends and that scared Nick and he has become isolated from the world as a result. Both these men have been traumatized by the loss of their friends which has caused them a lot of pain.
ReplyDeleteThe difference between the death of Gatsby and the death of Hopkins is the way these men ultimately lose their lives and the effect they had on the world. In “The Great Gatsby'', Gatsby is shot in his pool and soon after his death is all over the newspapers and media outlets. Although Gatsby did not have very many close friends the world was still talking about his death. His closest friend Nick goes to talk about his death and the huge effect Gatsby had on his life. Through his narration can be seen the maximalist approach that F. Scott Fitzgerald used it in order for the audience to understand how big an impact Gatsby had on Nick. In “The Big Two Hearted River” Hemingway implements the opposite approach by using a minimalist approach when Nick describes his friend Hopkins and his death. Nick does not go into much detail about his friend's death as he is unsure what happened to him instead he speaks fondly of the times they did have together before his implied death. By using the minimalist approach the reader is still able to understand what Hopkins meant to Nick but in fewer words.
I like the way you compare the effect each death had on the "Nick" in that story. I hadn't considered the fact that both end up leaving where they live after the death of their friend. Both seem to seek out a simpler life. The East Coast life was full of booze and meaningless parties, but Midwestern life is a simpler existence, even though it may not be as naturalistic as the life described in "Big Two-Hearted River." Still, it's clear both characters are escaping an artificial and dangerous lifestyle.
DeleteThe death of Gatsby in The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald is narrated entirely different from the implied death of Hopkins in Big Two-Hearted River by Ernest Hemingway. Gatsby dies in Chapter 8 when he is killed by George Wilson while being on an air mattress in the pool at his own house. Gatsby is killed by Wilson in an act of revenge. On the contrary, the death of Hopkins is only implied in Big Two-Hearted River. The narrator tells that “[t]hey never saw Hopkins again..“ and that it was “a long time ago on the Black River“ which only implies that Hopkins died and that this is the reason why they never saw him again. The death of Gatsby is narrated in a more dramatic way in contrast to the death of Hopkins. The reader is provided with details about the cause for Gatsby’s death and who the murderer was. The story also continues after the death of Gatsby. In Big Two-Hearted River there are fewer details and instead more room for interpretation not only in relation to the death of Hopkins but to the story in general.
ReplyDeleteThe differences in these narrative styles can be linked with the different approaches to Modernism. The maximalist and the minimalist approach. The narration of Gatsby’s death seems to be a maximalist approach whereas the narration of the death of Hopkins is more of a minimalist approach. In the maximalist approach the reader is provided with more details. In the minimalist approach there are fewer details and less context information which gives more room for interpretation. While the deaths of the two characters may show some similarities because both of them were wealthy men who still died lonely, the narration of these deaths is entirely different.
Fenja, I love your input on the difference in narration of the two deaths. The implied death of Hopkins leaves a small glimmer of hope at the end of "Big Two Hearted River" that he might still be alive and one day possibly return, while Gatsby's death is portrayed as dark and absolute. I also enjoyed reading your interpretation of Modernist themes and how they applied to each of the respective deaths. The gritty details of Gatsby's death versus the vagueness of Hopkins' death are a perfect example that you discussed in a very admirable manner.
DeleteBoth Gatsby in “The Great Gatsby” and Hopkins in “Big Two Hearted River” are characters who fall victim to the tantalizing grip of wealth. The two of them can be seen as physical embodiments of the American dream in the sense that they accrued great personal wealth despite coming from less than privileged backgrounds. Gatsby makes his fortune through (allegedly) doing business with bootleggers in the midst of the Prohibition, while Hopkins is able to claim a successful streak in the oil and gas field that few others can say they have under their belt. In the end however, these men show that no amount of money can prevent the tragedy of death eventually appearing on the threshold of one’s life.
ReplyDeleteOne thing the two men’s deaths share in common is that their death is presented as the loss of something they dearly wished for. Gatsby’s death is seen as the end of his quest for Daisy’s affection, something that he strived for throughout his adult life and sadly never finished. Hopkin’s death tragically spells the inevitable disappointment of Nick and Bill, as his presumed death means they cannot follow through on their promise of going fishing together upon his return from the war. While a fishing trip may seem insignificant compared to lost love, it nonetheless shows the end of something desirable. The differences in the deaths of the two men is whether or not they were “ready” in a certain sense. One could claim that Gatsby died two deaths; one when Daisy rejects him, and his physical death. Gatsby may have had no desires to continue pursuing, while Hopkins clearly still had things to look forward to as he promised his friends a fishing trip upon his return, and entrusted them to hold his possessions while he was away. This shows that he still had things in his life he felt were worth living for.
Hi Brookes, I found your compare and contrasting to be enjoyable to read. When you point out that both men "fall victim to the tantalizing grip of wealth" I have to completely agree with you. The American dream they pursued helped shape their characteristics and the way they formed relationships with others. I agree that Gatsby did die two deaths and the idea that Hopkins was not ready to pass on. You identified great comparative and contrasting examples!
DeleteIn life, everyone is bound to meet death. In both, The Great Gatsby by F. Scott. Fitzgerald and Big Two-Hearted River by Ernest Hemingway, there are characters that lived similarly and passed away alone. Jay Gatsby, a man that had been supported by his family riches all his life and only focused on a past love interest. Then there is Hemingway's character Hopkins, a friend of Nicks that is briefly mentioned in 3 paragraphs. Looking at the similarities between the two characters we can identify quite a few. Along with Gatsby, Hopkins was also quite rich with “millions of dollars in Texas” (Hemingway). While Gatsby owned a grand mansion and threw massive parties, Hopkins was able to have yachts and go for a cruise. Both men had friends named Nick, which both take great precedence throughout the two stories. Nick in The Great Gatsby on the last page was able to remember Jay and his belief “in the green light, the orgastic future that year by year recedes before us.” and in comparison, Nick in Big Two-Hearted River was also able to picture how Hopkins would make his coffee. They were both remembered by their friend named Nick.
ReplyDeleteFinding contrasting elements between the two is also fairly easy. Starting with the writing which displays a great difference to each character. Jay Gatsby although mysterious, readers got to get a more in-depth description of him. Hopkins had a very short description of how he liked his coffee and the Hop cruises that seemed to happen annually. This shows the maximalist and minimalist styles of writing between the two novels. Another difference is the discovery that Hopkins was a ladies' man and Gatsby only loved one woman, or the idea of her at least. There is one last example I would like to bring light to and that is the mentioning and usage of a gun. A gun weaponized and used to kill Jay Gatsby while in Hemingway's story Nick was gifted a gun as a form of way to reminisce about their friendship and Hopkins himself.
The two men lived lavish lifestyles and had people in their life, yet those people were truly not there for them. Gatsby's funeral was not as busy as his parties were, with only a few attendees present as he was buried. Hopkins, assumed to have passed had not seen his friends since giving them gifts to always remember him by. Both men lived this American dream but as they meet their end, they are left alienated with no meaning left behind in their materialist lifestyle.
I really like your point about the differences in the description of the two characters. We only ever have a vague idea of who Hopkins is, and we only know how he is remembered by Nick. Gatsby, on the other hand, we know quite a bit about (although he is still mysterious). I think this affects our perception of each death, since we can't feel truly sad for Hopkins since we don't know him, and can only empathize with Nick, but we can feel genuine sorrow about Gatsby's death.
DeleteHi Zoe,
DeleteFirst of all this is Maddy. I just wanted to let you know that I thought this discussion board was very well written and that you did a wonderful job with it. I really appreciated the two characters having their own separate details and the descriptive methods you used to tell them apart. I feel as though this really helped to tie into the overall imagery of the death faced by these two characters and provided a greater knowledge of what is happening in their own fictional universes.
Hopkins and Gatsby are both characters who were rich, and who had their lives changed by war. Nick recalls Hopkins being very wealthy, much like Gatsby, although there is no indication that Hopkins has attained his fortune through illegal means. Both have fought in World War One, and although it’s never explicitly stated that Hopkins died in the war, he received a telegram (most likely drafting him) and then left to never return, which heavily implies that he died in the war. Although both are rich men who affected greatly by the war, there are some differences between their experiences.
ReplyDeleteThe most important distinction between the two characters is the time of their death: Hopkins dies in the war, while Gatsby perishes afterwards. At first glance one might argue that this makes the two deaths totally different, and it is only coincidental that they both fought in the war. However, although Gatsby may not have died in combat, he does die as a result of the fragmentation he experienced when he returned from the war. The Great Gatsby is the story of various fragmented experiences that lead to Gatsby’s reaquaintance with Daisy, Mrs. Wilson’s death, and finally Mr. Wilson’s vengeful murder of Gatsby. This fragmentation was a distinctive part of society in the 1920’s, largely due to the changing social landscape and the alcohol-fueled parties. One could argue this change in society happened because of World War One, which would mean that Gatsby still indirectly dies from the war. In addition, Gatsby first meets with Daisy as an attempt to re-establish his life as it was before the war, even though it is impossible to reclaim. Gatsby dies because he cannot properly adapt to society after World War One. Although Gatsby dies years after Hopkins would have, both had their lives destroyed by war.
You made an excellent point, well done Tristan. I didn't think to include the Gatsby's difficulty adjusting to life after the war as a factor in his death, but it is certainly a strong similarity both characters share. Wonderful analysis.
DeleteThe above post was also made by Aaron McGuire, I apologize for not including it earlier.
DeleteThe death of Gatsby and the implied death of Hopkins have several similarities and differences between them. To better understand their respective impact - and perhaps a greater message - let’s first discuss their differences. Gatsby died by being shot by Mr. Wilson, who believed Gatsby murdered his wife in a hit-and-run car accident. Meanwhile, Hopkins died during the war by unknown forces. On that note, another difference can be found in that the death of Hopkins appears more detached and impersonal than Gatsby’s murder. This is due in part to the minimalist language found in “Big Two-Hearted River” contrasting with the much more detailed and ornate language of “The Great Gatsby,” as the limited word choice of the story may give less emotion than what Nick Adams may let on. This can also be due to Hopkins’s death being implied and placed in the past, contrasted by the seeming immediacy of Gatsby’s passing.
ReplyDeleteNow for their similarities. To begin with, both are wealthy, as evidenced by Gatsby’s fortune in dubious activities and Hopkins’ success in the oil industry. Additionally, both enjoyed relatively carefree lifestyles, with Gatsby throwing lavish parties and Hopkins planning on purchasing a yacht to go fishing on with his friends after the war. With both men being similar, it is important to note that both men were most likely murdered rather than killed by natural causes, this being evidenced by Gatsby’s death at the hands of Mr. Wilson and Hopkins being sent off to war and not returning. With this in mind, it can possibly be said that the fates of Hopkins and Gatsby might convey a greater message of the inevitably and the uncaring nature of death. Even the most well-off, carefree, and larger-than-life people cannot truly escape their fate, try as they might.
This post was made by Aaron McGuire, by the way.
DeleteTheir similarity of character is interesting. Both where wealthy and seemingly well-liked young men and both Nicks remember them fondly and seem to notice their absence with remorse. I like your closing sentence quite a bit but, I wonder if, in light of the recent war, both of these authors had particular feelings regarding extraordinary young men being taken from this world too soon. There seems to be certain notions of waste and remorse, particularly with Gatsby, that hangs around their sudden absence.
DeleteHemmingway takes a sparse, minimalist approach to Hopkins’ fate in “Big Two-Hearted
ReplyDeleteRiver.” Nick’s reminiscence of Bill and Hopkins is a somewhat brief notion that comes to him as he’s brewing coffee, the way Hopkins would have approved. There’s much left unsaid of Hopkins fate, with Nick only briefly recalling that Hopkins never returned for their group fishing trip that next summer. Though, Hemmingway adds a finality in, “That was a long time ago the Black River.” There isn’t much detail, or anything at all to go on. But from that sentence and Nick’s sentimentality for that time spent with Hopkins, one can infer that Hopkins is gone, never to return, that summer or the next. Jay Gatsby’s death, on the other hand, is a detailed and defined affair. Unlike Hopkins, Gatsby’s death isn’t left to interpretation or conspiracy. It’s known from the moment Nick arrives that Wilson’s misguided attempt at revenge was successful. The scene at the pool, while brief, lays out all the important details and vivid imagery, from the state of the pool to Wilson’s own fate. “The touch of a cluster of leaves revolved it slowly, tracing, like the leg of a compass, a thin red circle in the water.” (Fitzgerald, pg. 162)
Fitzgerald’s approach maximizes the detail of Gatsby’s death in a way that marks a peaceful, yet incredibly mournful end to the novel. The weather is mild and the pool calm. The extravagant, ostentatious parties that once filled the house seem so far in the past as the four men carried Gatsby’s body up the steps into a still, empty house. Much like in Hemmingway’s short story, there is a finality permeating the last paragraph. But whereas Fitzgerald spares no detail, Hemmingway ties up Hopkins’ fate in a few sparse sentences. Where there’s definition for Gatsby, there’s mystery for Hopkins. Each instance of their passing does ring with a finality, but of Hopkins’, the absence speaks loudly, taking the place of detail.
Hello Emily,
DeleteI love how you described the minimalist approach and how it applies to Hopkins' fate. I also liked that the death of Hopkins is so minimal in terms of how details are vague and in passing while Gatsby is a big show that is discussed for several pages.
Gatsby’s death at the end of chapter 8 is better detailed than the death in Big Two-Hearted River. We know Wilson is the one who killed him, and he also killed himself in the process. We know Gatsby was murdered in the pool while waiting for a call from Daisy and that after his death no on seemed to really care about him anymore. Despite his wealth and earnings, it wasn’t enough to save him in the end or maintain any real connection to people around him. He lived a fake life, and nobody really seemed to truly respect or care for him, not even Daisy. Nick Carraway was the only real friend to Gatsby in the end and tried his best to pay tribute considering how much he affected Nicks life.
ReplyDeleteHopkins’s death is even more vague and not actually even confirmed at the end of Big Two-Hearted River. Hopkins was also a wealthy man who seemed to be respected by the people around him especially Nick in the story. It seems maybe Hopkins suspected he might not make it and that why we left some of his belongings to others, but he kept hope promising they would go fishing on his yacht the next summer. He then says they never saw Hopkins again implying his death and also changing the tone of the story. Just as Nick Carraway did in The Great Gatsby respect Gatsby heavily, so did Nick in this story respect Hopkins. Both characters being greatly affected after their deaths.
Hi Camryn. I like the way you analyzed the two stories. Your explanation of difference between the death of two character. I thought it is kind of creepy Nick enjoying the bitterness of his coffee which is like the death of Hopkins. But he do represents that he does not think about that happening. I agree that Nick respects both of them and affects him greatly.
DeleteThe way that Hopkins died in contrast to how Gatsby died can be read in several ways, but the one that stuck with me is how big of a display Gatsby's death while Hopkins' was in passing. Gatsby was shot by George Wilson in a rather dramatic way, in his pool while seemingly minding his business. In contrast, Hopkins' death was vague and implied, leading to the minimalism of Big Two-Hearted River. Hopkins was implied to die in the war in a somewhat passing note but still brings the feeling that he has lost something; he will no longer be able to fulfill his promise of fishing with his friends. Gatsby has also lost his chance at happiness, his opportunity to achieve his life goal of being with the woman he loved.
ReplyDeleteGatsby and Hopkins's lives were cut short due to the consequences of their lives. Gatsby lost his life because of the woman he loved while Hopkins died due to being drafted into the war. I think they are both great examples of how you can achieve all the success in the world, be the envy of everyone, and have a seemingly wonderful life but still be lonely and want more. Humans are social creatures, and while people at his parties surrounded Gatsby, he was still isolated because he was waiting for Daisy. Hopkins had his friends, but in the end, they both died alone.
(Renee Balboa)
DeleteI like that you said their lives were cut short due to the consequences of their lives because it is interesting to think that everything a person does is leading them somewhere. It is also interesting that you mentioned humans being social creatures because having people around is something that is almost second nature to us that when were are put into isolation it can affect us in ways that we did not think was possible. You made really good points throughout you response.
(Renee Balboa)
ReplyDeleteIn both “The Great Gatsby” and “The Big Two Hearted River”, there were some similarities when it comes to comparing the deaths of Gatsby and Hopkins. Although Gatsby did not lose his life from a war it is known how Gatsby dies. With Hopkins his death is implied by what Nick says and it can be assumed that he lost his life during the war. Both Gatsby and Hopkins were of higher social classes and were very wealthy men, they both had large impacts on those around them. With Gatsby’s death it brings Nick to rethink what events could have been different if different choices were made leading up to his death. Hopkins’ death however brings Nick to reminisce on his loss and the time spent with him prior to going out in the war. There is a sense of contempt to Hopkins' loss knowing that he went out fighting and having a purpose behind what he was doing. Hemingway had an approach that would demonstrate a more minimalist approach, while Fitzgerald’s approach was the opposite. They both made the losses clear, one was more implied by context clues (Hopkins’ death), while the other gave details of how they died (Gatsby’s death). Overall both men were similar in materialistic possessions but they were very different in character. They were both successful men but how they got to be successful was very different.
Hi renee!
DeleteI think they are also different due to their motivations behind their wealthy and actions. Gatsby only had eyes for daisy. I also think the double Nick’s are very similar in the way that they describe their friends and their reactions to them.
The death of Gatsby was one that was described very minimally. It was just an action that was. It was very similar to Ernest Hemingway’s. This is very minimalist in details but left a very profound sense of the world for the narrator. Both Gatsby and Hopkins both are very materialistic and wealthy by their own means. Both men lost their relationships and exchanged it for material things to fill that void.
ReplyDeleteGatsby died over the love of a women while Hopkins dies maybe in a figuratively. This story reminds me of the poem “ Richard Cory.” That even though they had this wealthy and everything that they wanted, that they were empty inside.
F. Scott Fitzgerald’s the Great Gadsby and Ernest Hemingway’s Big Two Hearted River both depict wealthy persons’ death. Gatsby’s death by murder and Hopkins’s implied death in the war occur. They are both sacrificed men by losing the American dream. Even though they were financially successful enough, eventually died higher people or society. The authors are may delivering a message that money is not everything for your life.
ReplyDeleteIn the Great Gadsby, Wilson shoots Gatsby when he is waiting for Daisy’s call in his pool. Then Wilson shoots himself as well. He floats in the pool, trying to hang on to summer in fall. Nick describes how Gatsby’s death impacts him a lot. In Big Two Hearted River, Nick assumes that Hopkins must died in the war. Nick drinks a coffee and is happy with the bitterness which is similar to the ending of Hopkins’ story. Unlike Nick’s reaction at Gatsby’s death, Nick in this story does not want to think about negative happenings of the death by the war.
First and foremost, this is Madelyn Mendoza drafting this post. Before I get into a true compare and contrasting opinion of the provided material. I think it is prevalent to point out that these characters are both very wealthy in their own right, however, their deaths are both depicted by that of what a commoner would see. When looking at the direct death of both characters, it is common to see that these deaths are similar in their portrayals but the aftermath was of a much different extent for both authors and their readers. When looking at the death of Gatsby through the eyes of Fitzgerald, it is clear to see that the tumultuous murder of Gatsby and the overall suicide of Wilson affects Nick in very different ways, Nick almost appears in denial about the death of Gatsby.
ReplyDeleteHowever, when looking at the Hemmingway take on the death of Gatsby. It is a much different grief process and overall affect of the death for Nick. Nick purely assumes that overall natural causes of war took Hopkins and he is learning to be content with the overall process of death by comparing its bitterness to that of a cup of coffee. Overall, you see that the redefining feature is not necessarily the actions in which they characters died, but how Nick is handling the grief and the stages he goes through.
The death of Gatsby in The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald did not have much detail. All we are really told is that the Chauffeur heard the shots, and the scene of the pool when Nick arrived. We are given vivid description of how this death affected Nick. The death of Hopkins in Part I of Ernest Hemingway’s “Big Two-Hearted River” Nick recalled Hopkins’s death as a flashback. So, we are not with Nick when the death happens. We are also not given hardly any detail on how this death affected Nick, but are left to interpret it on our own.
ReplyDeleteIn both stories we are seeing a death of a old friend. The big difference in the two is their modernism approaches. When reading The Great Gatsby, it is a maximalist approach that details all of Gatsby’s death and how it affects Nick. In “Big Two-Hearted River” we are given a minimalist approach where we only are told that Hopkins never came home from the war. The rest we hear of Hopkins is Nick reminiscing on their time together. Even without the detail, we can see that Hopkins meant something to Nick, he meant enough to be remembered just by making coffee.
-This was written by Breanna Bruneau
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